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Joe The Plumber Debating Group
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We Op-Ed Election '08 LiveBlogs – Third Presidential Debate
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"The mortgage industry collapsed because if the bubble that was caused by Fannie and Freddie with help from politicians on both sides and corrupt groups like Acorn peddling mortgages to people that... Continue
Added a reply Oct. 12, 2008
You don't get it because you didn't read what I wrote. Your reply ignores all of it, which of course is different from discrediting it, Jerome. One last thing: "McCain co sponsered the bill calli... Continue
Added a reply Oct. 10, 2008
Wow. So much misinformation. Where to begin? "Do we really want to surrender to those countries that support terrorism and want nothing but to kill americans." I'm not even sure what this refers ... Continue
Added a reply Oct. 9, 2008
Posted on October 12th, 2008 at 4:46am —
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We can't answer the question of who won the VP debate until we see how the debate changes the polls, but we can review what might play role in how the debate affects those polls.
As we saw in the first presidential debate, body language will inform voters' decisions. In her interviews with Charles Gibson and Katie Couric, Gov. Palin's posture shrunk and writhed with discomfort and uncertainty. But none of that fear made its way into her performance in the debate. Both Senator Biden and Gov. Palin looked like leaders. Sarah Palin stood tall and smiled a lot. Joe Biden exuded confidence, especially in his laughter.
The audience came to the debate with an overwhelming concern about Palin's ability to answer the questions. In her interviews, Palin forfeited answering questions in favor of reciting irrelevant talking points. While she still ignored the questions in favor of talking points, Palin's "answers" in the debate were no longer convoluted, uncertain, or overwhelmingly irrelevant.
Biden, too, avoided making the types of gaffes that the press had outlined over the past several days. Both candidates passed the tests of body language and articulateness.
Where Biden surpassed Palin was in his ability to answer the moderator's actual questions, as well as in his ability to respond to his opponent's statements. Where Palin's "answers" were memorized generalities, Biden's answers were thoughtful improvisations that revealed how attuned he was to the situation.
So who won the debate?
I expect that Palin stabilized McCain's wavering base. To the extent that McCain's recent plummet in the polls came from a growing Republican discomfort with his VP selection, Palin's performance will recuperate most of that lost support.
Does this mean that McCain will surpass Obama in the polls? No. Palin's inability to differentiate McCain's policies from Bush's will not win over independents. Meanwhile, Biden was able to strengthen the undecideds' understanding of Obama's stances. Biden corrected misunderstandings, and bolstered support for his candidate.
McCain may recover most of his recent losses in the polls, but I expect that Obama will continue winning over swing states.
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Republican Governor Haley Barbour of MississippiThus far, attendance is relatively low, and Obama's supporters have a slightly better showing than McCain's. But the day is young.
The presidential debate was to take place in the Gertrude Ford Center, which is next to and shares a parking lot with the university's old train depot.
(The depot is in the forefront, the Ford Center in the background.)On May 4, 1961, the University Greys departed from the university's train depot to fight in the Civil War. During Pickett's Charge at the Battle of Gettysburg, according to Wikipedia, "The Greys penetrated further into the Union position than any other unit, but at the terrible cost of sustaining 100% casualties--every soldier was either killed or wounded."
Some of the Civil War was fought in the university's home town of Oxford, MS. Union troops burned the courthouse and town square, as well as many of the surrounding homes.
Just as the Civil War traumatized the South to the point of informing its identity, so too is the University of Mississippi's identity embedded in the conflicts from that period. In 1897, UM adopted its nickname "Ole Miss," the term slaves used to address the mistress of the plantation. In 1935, Ole Miss appropriated the name "Rebels" for its sports teams. The unofficial fight song is "Dixie," and the school's band plays a modified rendition called "Dixie Fanfare."
After a series of court cases, on September 30, 1962, James Meredith enrolled in the University of Mississippi as its first African-American student. Attorney General Bobby Kennedy sent federal marshals to protect Meredith's enrollment that day. Between the Civil War memorial and the Lyceum (the image on the far right), students, townsfolk, and Klan members took arms and engaged the marshals. 160 of the 320 marshals were injured, 28 by gunfire. Two bystanders died in the riot.
The University of Mississippi has worked in the opposite direction of its racially divisive past since then. In 2003, the university removed its Civil-War mascot "Colonel Reb" from the field, although not without resistance.
Like a ghost of the university's past, Colonel Reb now haunts the tailgating celebrations in the Grove. African-American student Melissa Cole eloquently describes her experience as such: "With so much of our university’s history revolving around racial tension and the many current attempts to ease that tension, Ole Miss has given me reasons to be proud of my alma mater and alternatively too embarrassed to claim it." As James Meredith explains of the region, “The black/white situation is still a problem here, but no longer the problem.”
The fact that the first presidential debate with an African-American nominee was taking place at the University of Mississippi was an important step, but not just for the university. In a significant way, the university's history is emblematic of the nation's history. The black/white situation is still a problem in the United States, but no longer the problem. This first debate and its location both signify the nation's maturation beyond this problem.
And now this next step might be postponed.
As far as Colin Powell is concerned, I remember my friends and I wanting him to run for president--until he sacrificed some of his beliefs about war in order to carry out the orders of his Commander and Chief, George W. Bush. When he resigned, I remember my friends and I feeling sorry for him, because while we still respected him, we no longer saw him as presidential material. In our minds, his inability to stand up for his beliefs against authority degraded him to at best an honorable yes man.
And yet, today I think of the vast history of white men who have entered the presidency after committing far greater sins. Did I hold Colin Powell to a higher level of standard? Absolutely. I expected more from him than I did from his white counterparts.
According to Chris Rock, we have two reactions to high profile African Americans. We either demonize them for their mistakes, or we see golden light glowing from everything they do or say. There is no middle ground. All reactions to high-profile African Americans are always extreme.
My literary-critic friends and I often discuss a stock character that has dominated the screen since the early 1990s. We refer to this character as the "magical negro." Whether it's Whoopi Goldberg in Star Trek The Next Generation, Michael Clarke Duncan in The Green Mile, Laurence Fishburne in The Matrix, or Morgan Freeman in a host of films, ranging from The Shawshank Redemption to Bruce Almighty to Batman Begins, the magical negro has access to a special kind of knowledge that helps the white people achieve their goals. And the magical negro always has a golden aura.
One of the criticisms of Barack Obama is that he's treated as if he had a golden light glowing from everything he does or says, and as if he has the power to solve every problem in America. As I recall Chris Rock's statement that all reactions to high-profile African Americans are extreme, I have to wonder if Obama has achieved the stock-character status of the magical negro for some of his supporters. To the extent that people depict Obama as not only having a golden aura but also possessing a special kind of knowledge that will help (white) America achieve its goals, Obama has slipped from the status of a human being into the image of the magical negro.
On the other side of Chris Rock's equation, those who oppose Obama have transformed little slips and unfortunate associations into justification for demonizing him. For them, Obama does not have the same luxury to learn from his mistakes that John McCain has.I guess Chris Rock and Colin Powell's marker for the end of racism hasn't come to pass.
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